Page:The Republic (Spens, 1919).djvu/32

Certainly.

Neither, then, is it the part of a just man, Polemarchus, to hurt either friend, or any other, but the part of his contrary, the unjust man.

In all respects, said he, you seem to me, Socrates, to say true.

If, then, any one says that it is just to give every one his due, and thinks this with himself, that hurt is due to enemies from a just man, and profit to his friend, he was not wise who said so, for he spoke not the truth. For it hath no where appeared to us that any just man hurts any one.

I agree, said he.

Let us jointly contend, then, said I, if any one shall say that Simonides, a Bias, a Pittacus, said so, or any other of those wise and happy men.

I am ready, said he, to join in the fight.

But do you know, said I, whose saying I fancy it is, that it is just to profit friends and hurt enemies?

Whose? said he.

I fancy it is the saying of Periander, or Perdiccas, or Xerxes, or Ismenius the Theban, or some other rich man who thought himself able to do a great deal.

You say most true, said he.

Be it so, said I. But as this hath not appeared to be justice, nor just, what else may one say that it is?

Thrasymachus frequently, during our reasoning, rush'd in the midst to lay hold of the discourse, but was hindered by those who sate by, who wanted to hear the conversation to an end. But when we paused, and I had said these things, he was no longer quiet, but, collecting himself, as a wild beast he came upon us, as if he wou'd have torn us in pieces. Both Polemarchus and I, being frightened, were thrown into the utmost consternation ; but he, roaring out in the midst, What trifling, said he, Socrates, is this, which long ago possessed you ? and why do you thus play the fool together, yielding mutually to one another? But if you truly want to know what is just, ask not questions only and value yourself in confuting when any one answers you any thing (knowing this, that it is easier to ask than to answer), but answer yourself, and tell what it is you call just. And you are not to tell me that it is what is fit, nor what is due, nor what is profitable, nor what is gainful, nor